tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post4689998708592776470..comments2023-09-15T09:56:16.253-03:00Comments on Composing: Composinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01739889615635395138noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-29629591765013512812008-03-09T19:29:00.000-03:002008-03-09T19:29:00.000-03:00Ben, this is short because I'm racing to finish tw...Ben, this is short because I'm racing to finish two things over the next couple of days.<BR/><BR/>I think a lot of people recognise the extreme potential of hyperlinked open electronic communication systems. But no-one's quite figured out *exactly* how to make it work. I think wiki is a massively important clue. Wiki is one of the best things I've seen. But even that isn't good enough ... and while I think that the optimization of writing over reading is correct, wiki desperately needs something to help organize the content for the readers, and to help writers refactor and maintain it.<BR/><BR/>I have a couple of thoughts on something I called "Typed Threaded Discussion" (you can find on ThoughtStorms) ... but frankly they fell flat. No one really liked it at all.<BR/><BR/>Like I say, I don't think anyone's yet figured out exactly the right formula. <BR/><BR/>I had look at the Gnodal stuff, but yeah, for me it's too "coy" to for me to get much of an impression. I understand your concerns about not giving too much away, but that's the paradox. The real devil is in the details, and without having enough details, people aren't going to be able to judge it.<BR/><BR/>I have no real answer to this, I tend to give as much of my stuff away as possible in the hope that the value of the attention it gains me, outweighs any loss. But as it doesn't gain me much attention at all, it's hard to say if it's a net win.Composinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739889615635395138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-55038838833354301912008-03-09T17:31:00.000-03:002008-03-09T17:31:00.000-03:00You wrtoe "I went looking for peer-to-peer computi...You wrtoe "I went looking for peer-to-peer computing projects that looked likely to do some good."<BR/>Truly?<BR/><BR/>In the mid-70s, involved in a big "citizen involvement" project having to do with the UN's 7th Special Session (on "The New International Economic Order" ... the stuff we now call "globalization") I realized that most communications were "phatic", that the majority of communications had to do with social posturing, either flattering one's own ego, flattering the ego of someone else with an eye to gain, or dissing someone else's ego with an eye to looking clever and assertive.<BR/><BR/>30 years later we're generating 100 times as much verbiage but still not grappling with the issues effectively.<BR/><BR/>I talk about implementing Hesse's "Glass Bead Game", I mean really actualizing <I>glasperlenspiel</I> as a common/shared/interactive world encyclopedia and get glib replies, if/when I get any replies at all.<BR/>I talk about implementing the "discourse-based document portal" to create a system for "evidence-based desision support" and get similarly glib replies, if at all.<BR/><BR/>I can honestly say I've spent over a decade on this one design (Basically, coming to grips with why/how concept mapping has never and will never become a popular method, however well that method handles wicked problems.) and what I see, consistently, is that the doers are looking for another MySpace or Facebook, or another Twitter or Flickr ... in other words: the doers are aiming for sizzle and buzz. (You might have seen me tweet on the themes of #borg and #matrix and #oligarchs ... that's what I'm talking about.)<BR/><BR/>My http://bentrem.sycks.net/gnodal/ is intentionally coy ... I'm too old and too poor to give away the work that's come into being after 3 decades of dedication ... and both <A HREF="http://many2many.wordpress.com" REL="nofollow"></A> <A HREF="http://vibewise.wordpress.com" REL="nofollow"></A> are place-holders at the moment, again because I'm in stealth mode. But I haven't seen any substantial interest. (OpenSource is supposedly so magnanimous, but the project to create a web-based accounting front-end for Grameen Bank has barely crept forward.)<BR/><BR/>I just spent a while in your Thought Storms ... a lot prettier than <A HREF="http://bentrem.sycks.net/wiki/" REL="nofollow">my wiki</A>, but the similarities are there, so I'm daring to run my mouth here.<BR/><BR/>I have connected with so many really clever Web2.0-types, but not a single one has shown the slightest interest in what I call "participatory deliberation". So I ask you: <I>what's <B>boring</B></I> about linking OpenAccess documents to discourse and discussion about public policy?<BR/><BR/>From a profoundly Zen perspective I have to say: folk are addicted to "buzz". I mean addicted. I mean brain-addled, ADHD, and compulsive. Money and prestige are the only valid motives.<BR/><BR/>We're living a terribly dangerous moment.Bernard (ben) Tremblayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04097630017893920397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-59389457131640510192008-03-01T13:43:00.000-03:002008-03-01T13:43:00.000-03:00agree with the devil in Master and Margarita: "Wou...agree with the devil in Master and Margarita: "Wouldn't it be much better to throw a party with that twenty-seven thousand and take poison and depart for the<BR/>other world to the sound of violins, surrounded by lovely drunken girls and dashing friends?"dariush sokolovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03612390088903879785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-21815478268864319832008-03-01T03:01:00.000-03:002008-03-01T03:01:00.000-03:00John : In general, of course I *am* very optimisti...John : In general, of course I *am* very optimistic about the social technologies. The pessimism (or scepticism), of posts like this is something I deliberately cultivate - a bit of counter-thinking.<BR/><BR/>Although obviously there's some seriousness behind it.<BR/><BR/>You're right about singing together not being the same as getting together with friends, and social gatherings being far more complex. <BR/><BR/>And it's funny how powerful touching can be. I'm definitely not good at it. Very resistant :-(Composinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739889615635395138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-87669519122619780072008-03-01T02:13:00.000-03:002008-03-01T02:13:00.000-03:00John : thanks .... yeah that autism story very imp...John : thanks .... yeah that autism story very impressive. <BR/><BR/>(Of course, I was using the term in a lazy, colloquial way, appologies to all autists out there.)Composinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739889615635395138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-85580062674330792882008-02-29T16:43:00.000-03:002008-02-29T16:43:00.000-03:00I keep thinking about this post. A part of it is ...I keep thinking about this post. A part of it is I have such high hopes for commons based peer production, and suspicious my hopes are exaggerated and misplaced. You have great insight so despite my disinclination to look at the dark side of netocracy, confidence in your insight encourages me to.<BR/><BR/>A couple of pieces I read recently seemed worth pointing to. The first <A HREF="http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/christakis08/christakis08_index.html" REL="nofollow">Social Networks Are Like the Eye</A> a talk with Nicholas A. Christakis. <BR/><BR/>The second <A HREF="http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-03/ff_autism" REL="nofollow">The Truth About Autism: Scientist Reconsider What They think They Know</A>.<BR/><BR/>I'm not really sure how that second one relates. What's fascinating is the Wired story reports about Amanda Baggs autistic who while is unable to speak is able to type and use speech synthesis software to tell us about what's going on. She says that the repetitive movements she makes are a language for interacting with her world.<BR/><BR/>Singing together is a funny ritual, actually not the same sort of ritual as getting together and friends taking turns in performance. But all social rituals are probably much more complicated than we think. <BR/><BR/>In my family we don't often hug and kiss, at least that's how I remember my childhood. Not surprisingly we're not good dancers either. Yet I remember well dancing with my mother at weddings and various social occasions. These dancing occasions are memorable, and rather a part of a language of the sort that Amanda Baggs is referring to when she talks about interacting with the world. At least similar in the sense that the "language" is so different from what we think of as language.<BR/><BR/>Just for fun, a little toy <A HREF="http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/MoirePatterns/" REL="nofollow">Moire Patterns</A>John Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126222842766191343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-56879417304158417302008-02-28T00:31:00.000-03:002008-02-28T00:31:00.000-03:00Scribe :Wow! *That* is profound. Death as socially...Scribe :<BR/><BR/>Wow! *That* is profound. Death as socially constructed, and only the isolated / cynic sees it as "destructive".<BR/><BR/>I think I agree, but that's one to really meditate on.Composinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739889615635395138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-38848214123490858042008-02-27T13:31:00.000-03:002008-02-27T13:31:00.000-03:00The natural question then is: is death* a (sociall...The natural question then is: is death* a (socially) constructive event?<BR/><BR/>It's odd that in such times, so much comes out. Friendships are renewed, memories are re-invigorated, and even things like charity donations are summoned up. Taking stock can be a hugely positive, hugely enthusing, and hugely life-changing process to go through. But to do so, I think there must be social ties surrounding a death.<BR/><BR/>This is, of course, a different way of looking at it. Perhaps the "cynical" perspective (dying alone) sees death as a personal, yet destructive act, and sociality surrounding that purely as a means of comfort.<BR/><BR/>But on the other hand, maybe a "positive" perspective places it as a constructive, <I>social</I> act. "I am dying, but I had a good life." It's much harder to realise the value of life when you think you have loads of it left.<BR/><BR/>Uh oh, I've ventured into <A HREF="http://thebucketlist.warnerbros.com/" REL="nofollow">Hollywood territory</A>. I'm going to stop there.<BR/><BR/><BR/>* Sorry to be so morbid/down-to-earth about it all. I've been thinking about it a lot as of late...Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757616056135886893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-31079460538444087042008-02-26T13:29:00.000-03:002008-02-26T13:29:00.000-03:00Thanks for comments guys :John : "I reacted rather...Thanks for comments guys :<BR/><BR/>John : "I reacted rather viscerally to the notion of your wanting to die alone." <BR/><BR/>That's the payload of the whole essay really, isn't it? :-) <BR/><BR/>This ambivalence. Is this a rather beautiful, zen, attitude to take. (Which is the way I always thought of it.) Or is it a symptom of corruption by a system which has used music to isolate me from love and mold me into consumtariat?<BR/><BR/>Scribe : I think the point is "consumtariat" isn't quite the same as good-old-fashioned-consumer. The consumtariat are active, but in Attali's metaphor, "singing karaoke", not making their own instruments. It's the same problem as "user generated content" when seen as a rather cynical exploitative strategy by some media companies. That's the subtle zone of conflict that's playing out at the moment : real "composing" vs. "false composing".<BR/><BR/>But yes, ultimately I am still seeing an opposition between "socializing" and "consuming" (Maybe is this naive given the previous paragraph?) <BR/><BR/>Nice point about flash-mobs. Yeah, social software obviously *does* bring back the social. And the social is not always scripted by the netocrats. It is an opportunity to reclaim something else.<BR/><BR/>Music is weird. But what's fun about Attali is that he makes it a sociological tool to study history.Composinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739889615635395138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-70332456233367220072008-02-26T09:03:00.000-03:002008-02-26T09:03:00.000-03:00Wow, good post, but too many criss-crossing ideas ...Wow, good post, but too many criss-crossing ideas to respond coherently or fully. Initial thoughts below , maybe I'll get round to replying properly some time:<BR/><BR/>1. I think this sentence may help to pick things apart a little:<BR/><I>Opportunistic appropriation is a very meagre way of interacting compared to being a member of a band.</I><BR/>There are 2 axes here - firstly, whether something is done socially or not, and secondly, whether you are creating or consuming. Both the latter can be done socially, or independently.<BR/><BR/>Hence, as a autisticish netocrat embedded in a post-consumer technology realm (I always wanted to say that), you are torn between consuming (which is what the technology is set up to let/make you do) and socialising. <BR/><BR/>The difference between a carnival and the <A HREF="http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/feb/26/television.filmnews" REL="nofollow">flailing Oscars</A> is that you (Can) <I>participate in</I> a carnival, but you <I>consume</I> the Oscars. The latter is nothing but a celebration of <I>other people's creativity</I>.<BR/><BR/>I've been thinking about Flash Mobs the last few days, and I think they tie in neatly here. (Or vice versa.) Flash Mobs are sociable, but they also set out to <I>create</I>, not consume. The fact that they're considered "pranks" shows just how much we bend over and accept consumerism as THE way of life nowadays. Not so long ago, getting lots of people together and doing something - together - would seem the "Normal" thing to do.<BR/><BR/>2. The JHAS, seen from the point of view of Facebook, and hence from that of Microsoft et al, and hence that of Those In Charge Of Economic Wellbeing, is all about monetary value. We are at the point where the "priceless" things in life - as Mastercard would have it - are rapidly becoming "priced", albeit at a very abstract level. I've long wanted to blog properly about this (if I haven't already ;) but yes, in essence, why are so keen to sell out our friendships and communication? Is it really that exciting?<BR/><BR/>3. Music is weird and says much, much more than words.Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757616056135886893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5148972.post-33218359944112494192008-02-26T05:10:00.000-03:002008-02-26T05:10:00.000-03:00You always say so much in your little posts. This...You always say so much in your little posts. This one is going to take a while to digest. I'm hitting an age when the deaths of people I know is becoming more frequent. I'm no expert on death and dying, and certainly no expert on what you want. But I reacted rather viscerally to the notion of your wanting to die alone. <BR/><BR/>It's not that I don't see good reason why you would feel you'd like to die alone listening to music. But it's the people who want to be with you at the end that turned my head. Mostly people don't check out rather suddenly, and often in that period between life and death there's not much talking. But sometimes, with a good death, there is a purity of love that defies verbal description; rather how it's so hard to put into words music that moves you.<BR/><BR/>I would not want you to miss the experiences of love at the time of dying. That love may be imanent alone or together, but I strongly suspect it's connected among all those attending. OTOH I'm happy you're not intending to check out anytime soon.John Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126222842766191343noreply@blogger.com